MONDO EXTRAS

And it doesn't make you say -- it seems to me that if there's a really trashy, terrible drama, people don't start to say, "Dramas are bad."

Exactly. But with reality? They say, "Look where it's going. Look how bad it is."

And it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I mean, I covered...after I covered Race the first couple times, but before I covered some of the other stuff, I covered, uh, Married By America. And I'll tell you right now, watching Married By America has nothing to do with watching any of the other better quality stuff that I've done.

Sure.

And it's not like you would watch that and say, "Okay, well, this says something about..." I mean, that show didn't say anything about anything except itself.

I absolutely agree. And you know, what we do on Race, and what I'm trying to do with this show, I think, is a lot harder. It's a lot harder to get traction with a show like this when you don't have really controversial, train-wreck moments of television.

And here's my -- I think one of the impressions that people had, one of the things that people talked about with Race this year, was that it did seem to have a little bit more of that stuff in it. And I think there was some concern about...you know, there's a lot of yelling...there's a lot of yelling at the animals...there's a lot of almost getting arrested...and it sort of felt a little -- there were parts of it that felt a little more train-wrecky than usual.

Well, you know, what we have is we throw all these people together in a pot and...I've said it before, that they are the writers of the show. And I think that you never...[crazy electronic music plays]. God, my phone just keeps ringing all the time.

[laughing] Is that what that is?